Speaker A: Welcome to sharing my truth with Mel and Suzie. The uncensored version where we bear it all.

Speaker B: We do 1234.

Speaker A: And hello, and welcome back to sharing my truth pod. You are here with Mel and Suzy. We are so happy and grateful and blessed to be here today with you. And if you guys forgot, give this a cute little friendly five star review and follow us on Instagram errymytruthpod. Go to sharemytruth.com. you actually can share your story with us there as well as TikTok, Facebook, YouTube. You can see our pretty little faces.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Who doesn't want to see that?

Speaker B: No. Everyone.

Speaker A: Hey, babes.

Speaker C: Hello, Darnley.

Speaker D: How are you?

Speaker B: I'm fabulous as always. Everything's good.

Speaker A: Well, we just finished an incredible interview with, seriously, probably one of the most amazing women we've spoken to on this pod and maybe in my life, to be honest. Her name is Amber Nicole Hayes. Her story, it's so, like, I'm a little bit in shock that we literally just finished the interview, and Mel and I just had, like, at least a ten minute session of just kind of, like, debriefing. And I think, I really hope if once you listen to the episode, you also do that with, you share it with someone you think would also enjoy the interview and the episode, and then you talk about it with them because it's such an important. Her experience is so important, and it's a lot more common than I think we want to believe it is.

Speaker B: She's written a book which is about to come out.

Speaker A: It's called the obedient Daughter, and it comes out September 24. And if you want to go to her instagram as well, it's Amber Hayes, author, a M b e r h A y E s, author on Instagram. And, yeah, you can see all of her stuff there. You can see when her book comes out. And you can also obviously, like, you know, go to her website from there, too.

Speaker B: Yeah, she's. We're obviously not going to give anything away, but she is sharing an incredibly dark and traumatic story in the hopes that it will help. You know, obviously, it's helpful to her to heal, but also helpful for other people in a similar situation to, you know, find some comfort in the fact that the people, that they can survive these horrendous things as human beings, we can survive. But I just like to say she's a very. She comes across as incredibly together. She's really articulate. She's very eloquent. And we even said it to her. It's really inspiring to see somebody like that who survived such intense trauma and darkness in her life and to have come out the other side and to be really, like, together, happy person who's getting on with it, which is just, I mean, phenomenal, is really the only word I've got.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think we. A lot of us, and I said this a little bit in the episode, but, like, men, women, people go through trauma, and a lot of it, unfortunately, can be sexual trauma. And that's something that, you know, she speaks about with. With what she's dealt with in her life. And, you know, like, it's much more common than we believe it is. And it's unfortunate, but the way that she's able to speak about it and bring people together for it, like, and educate people and, like, you know, she's so blessed to have, like, a family now who is completely understanding and loves her so much and she loves them. Like, you know, it's. It's amazing and I. That she's hopefully inspiring other people to also come forward about their own traumas.

Speaker B: 100%. Yeah. And to go on and thrive in your future, literally thrive, because it's a horrible thing that's happened in your past and you can't change it. You can control your own behavior and you can pave a bright future, which she's obviously done. So it's inspiring to share these stories and, you know, just. I suppose the last thing for me is that. So now I can go on a bit is that, you know, we obviously talk a lot about sex and relationships and life and stuff that happens to people on this podcast. And sometimes, you know, we're sort of light and this is not. This is dark and serious, but it's important to share that because life is all of those things, isn't it?

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: And obviously, we want to put a hard trigger warning on this episode. If you haven't already gotten the idea of what this episode is going to be about, it's going to be a lot of, you know, very triggering, traumatizing things that have happened. And if this triggers you, please do not listen. Or if you think it's going to maybe just share with a friend first and see if it, you know, would be okay for you to listen. We obviously want to get her story out there as much as possible, but if you believe that this is something you can't listen to, then just skip this one and we'll see you on the next one. But, yeah, this is. This episode is definitely for mature audiences, listeners, discretion is advised.

Speaker B: Absolutely. 100%. It's mature content, and that's really important. And to think about that if any of this could potentially trigger you.

Speaker A: Yes, darlings, we love you guys. Take care of yourselves and we'll see you on the other side. Love you.

Speaker D: Hello, hello, hello, hello. Amber Hayes. Thank you so, so much for coming on board with us today. We are so lucky and just privilege to have you on here. We've done a little bit of research on you and we're so excited to just share you with our audience today. You have such an amazing story that, you know, is so incredibly empowering and yet so, I think, traumatic, obviously, to a lot of us who have maybe not been through the same situation, but I think we a lot of women and menta and whoever else can relate to. So it's really amazing. So, anyways, just thank you so much for being here.

Speaker C: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker E: Thank you for sharing your story.

Speaker D: Yes, sharing your story. That's huge, huge, huge. I'd love for just you to give our audience, in your own words, just a quick rundown of who you are. I know you're just coming out with a book, which is very exciting. So if you just want to give our audience just a little bit of background about you.

Speaker C: Yeah. So my name is Amber Hayes. I am a mother of two young girls. I run my own interior design studio here in Calgary, Alberta, specializing in children's designs. I had, I would say a mental breakdown, some could call it that, over Covid, actually. My body started showing signs of miss. And so I had limb numb or numb limbs. And I was going through all the testing, so neurological testing, looking for deficits, looking for any type of MS, confirming symptoms. And so my doctor finally told me after all the tests came back that it wasn't MS and that it must be something else. And she diagnosed me with depression. And so for me, that was quite a bit of a shock, but a bit of a relief as well. I went through all of the typical, you know, go see your therapist. Here's some sertraline. So loft, and we'll get you back on track. And so I went through all of that, and it wasn't until my second therapist that I realized that I had a bit of a story and a bit of a trauma to unfold and uncover. And so for a number of years, I guess prior to the age of 37, every single morning I would wake up with this ginormous secret that I had been keeping for 25 years. I had buried it deep, deep down as far as I could. And I thought that I would, you know, go to the grave with me. But unfortunately, my body had other plans. And so that secret was that my brother had sexually abused me for a period of seven years, from the ages of five until twelve. And when I was twelve, it ended in a final rape. And that's what had haunted me for all of these years. So, as I was going through when I was 37, for the last two years, every single morning I would wake up, and the first thing that came into my mind was, your brother raped you. And so that was my body's way of saying, you need to deal with this.

Speaker D: So, like, after all that time, obviously you're feeling these things. What do they feel like? Is it actually your body telling you exactly what happened? Or, like, what is the first thing that comes up? Is it just like this, like, gross inkling? That's like coming into your morning routine? Like, what does that look like?

Speaker C: So that the messaging was accurate, right? It was something that I had acknowledged, but it was something I never would have admitted to anybody. It was a secret that I was wanting to take to the grave. And so it wasn't until that second therapist said to me, I want you to take the time over the next week, and I want you to go deep. I want you to go as dark as you can. And she even said, she's like, things are going to get hard. It's going to be dark and scary and something you're not going to want to deal with, but I want you to dig deep and I want you to be able to pull everything out that, you know, may have happened to you as a child. And I don't, I honestly don't think that she knew what she was really talking about as far as, like, this girl's got some issues. Like, I don't think it was that we were talking about, you know, depression and working on, you know, working out and eating healthy and, like, all of those things. And here she just flips the, the switch and says, go, go deep and go dark. And so it wasn't until the week after that I came back. And after I sat in it for three or four days, and when she gave me the permission to go deep and dark, I think that's when I finally said, okay, I think this is what I need to confess. And so I did. And the look on her face was this, like, oh, ****, like, I've got something, right? Like, I made a change. And so if it wasn't for her, then the chances of it coming out would have been very slim, right?

Speaker D: And, like, I mean, huge trauma.

Speaker E: I mean, it's huge. I mean, it's unimaginably traumatic. I don't. You know, I don't think most of us can really fathom what that's like. You know, we might have had, you know, instances of traumatic stories in terms of sexual abuse or whatever with men, or, you know, maybe we've had variations of. That is unimaginably traumatic. And I. I think, to me, what I interested in is how you found the courage or why you want. What is it about sharing it? Is it a healing process or.

Speaker C: Yeah, no, I wouldn't say that it's necessarily even a healing process for myself. It's more of, you know, when I. When I think back to about the secret, I think it was. It was something that I needed to release the toxicity from my body because of that. Right. And so I had this, you know, this visceral, physical feeling when I spoke those words for the very first time. And it was like thousands of bugs came flying out of my mouth, and so I could feel it leaving my body, which was, you know, a sense, a kickstart, that healing process, when it came through, being able to write a book and share it with other people, I think it just came down to being that inspiration for somebody else to be able to realize and acknowledge what they've been through, but also have somebody knowing that they're not alone. Having that other person say, yeah, I've been through something very similar, and I'm okay, and you're gonna be okay, too. So I think, you know, more than anything, that's what the book is about.

Speaker D: Then, like, with that kind of trauma, obviously, like, you went into therapy thinking you were like, I have depression, like, what's going on with me? And then, you know, you're having this huge traumatic experience, like, reliving this almost, by telling someone about it, which is crazy. So, like, kind of, how do you get to that point of. And then, like, what's the work after that?

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: Because it's like, that's a. From that point, I don't know. Sorry. I don't know if you said the year that you kind of came to that realization and then, like, how did you get here? Like, so open, so wanting to tell your story.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's a good point. So telling. I guess telling the story was the first part of it, and I told my husband it then turned into telling my family it was confronting my abuser. There was a whole bunch of that. And so it wasn't. I think it was just understanding initially that it wasn't just one occurrence that it had expanded, you know, or spanned previously for a number of years. And so then all of those instances started coming up as well. It was. I was reminded of, you know, those teaching moments, how he positioned it, that he was teaching me, you know, how to give a hand job, how to, you know, what *********** was. You know, there were so many various, and I hadn't even french kissed a boy yet, so I wasn't entirely sure how **** sex was supposed to be a learning opportunity prior to learning how to kiss somebody.

Speaker E: Wow.

Speaker C: So I went through a lot of time, taking time to realize what had happened and that it wasn't my fault, it wasn't the life that I had chose. I think as anybody who's been through sexual abuse, you start to understand the effects that it has. It's the little things, right? Not wanting somebody to touch your face, for example, is one of the main triggers of it. I can't have anybody behind me, for example, promiscuity is another one. And so the choices that I made, say, during high school or university, or the way that I didn't put my body and my physical being on a pedestal like it deserved, was partly due to. Because of that, I wholly do, I would say. So once I was able to understand that and understand that it wasn't my fault, then I stepped into damage control, I would say. So it was going to see a therapist explaining the entire story and working my way through that with her, as well as doing EMdR, which was massive from a healing perspective. And it's rapid eye, um, movement desensitization. So. So, yeah, it was basically going through all of that and being able to go session after session. And so want to go back just for a second.

Speaker D: You were talking about endm.

Speaker C: Is that EMDR? So, so it is eye movement desensitization. And so what it does is it is a, it's like a sound bar, but it's a light. And so it goes back and forth, back and forth. And as it does that, you're brought through the memory of the trauma. And so your therapist is sitting there asking questions, asking you to go back and through it. And so in your brain, it's basically taking that memory that is stuck in your amygdala, and then it reprocesses it as a normal memory.

Speaker E: Wow.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker E: Is it kind of like hypnosis or something?

Speaker C: Sort of. I also did that. So I did three rounds, three separate sessions of EMDR, which was incredibly helpful.

Speaker D: Wow.

Speaker C: And then after that, I thought, you know what? I just to get the cherry on top, I want to go see a hypnotherapist. And so I had a hypnotherapist session and basically was brought back into the memory. I could hear, feel, smell, and so I was my adult self, and I was able to go in and pick up my twelve year old self and take her out. And so it was extremely powerful.

Speaker E: I think I just want to go back to something you've said about, you know, that you obviously, you locked away all these memories. And I think that's what a lot of people don't understand. Like, how does the body do that? How does the mind do that? I mean, it's self preservation. That's what happens, is 100% you have trauma. If you've had experience, I've experienced trauma in my life. And you go through huge stretches of time where you almost just don't think about it. It's another person, it's another life, and that it's a way for your mind and body to protect you. And then obviously what happens? It's like the pandora's box is many years later in life. Something happens, triggers it. The whole thing flies open, which, I mean, I don't want to speak for you, but do you think that to explain that is that kind of what happened?

Speaker C: Because I think as any survivor, anybody who's been through trauma, you disassociate so much. You detach yourself from those feelings, from the emotions, from the trauma itself. And I would say that it can rear its head specifically in an instant, anytime that my children are around. A male teacher, for example, or if my husband has a friend over and they're taking a bath, I get super uncomfortably because they don't want them near him or near them. Right. And so I didn't understand this until I really brought back the sexual abuse. And so that made it even more confirming that that's what it was and how it's affected me.

Speaker E: So I was just gonna ask. And you met and married your husband without ever talking about this until this point. So you had children, presumably had, you know, a decade or whatever of a relationship, and there's no idea what's going on?

Speaker C: No. So I actually was married once before. And so in the book, it very much talks about there's. There's three core components of it. It is the sexual abuse that has happened underneath the watch of my mother, who is borderline and narcissistic personality disorder. And to escape both of them, I then marry into an abusive marriage with my ex. Husband. And so it's kind of this trifecta of what I go through. And he was never privy to any of this information either, so he didn't understand it. But that feeling of safety that you crave as somebody that has been through any type of abuse is huge, right? And so because he never provided that for me, based on our volatile marriage, it ended. And thankfully, I was able to get myself together after that and find my husband that I'm with now. So. So, yeah, we have two young girls, ten and seven. And it was, yes, I'm 40 now. So it was when I was 37 that everything came out. And he was an absolute saint through all of it. You know, as our marriage was crumbling because I wanted to preserve this secret, I was so overwhelmed, in shame because of everything that had happened. My marriage was at the breaking point. And I had just been sitting in this dark secret from my therapist, as she said, go dark for the last four days. And as much as I wanted to continue to bury it, I just couldn't.

Speaker D: So I know you were saying, like, obviously, this, like, Ms symptoms were the ones that, like, happened. Do you know what the specific trigger was? Was it like, all these men kind of coming in your life, of your daughters, or, like, do you know anything like, what triggered it?

Speaker C: I think it was Covid, to be honest. I think because life had shut down. Right. We were stuck within the walls of our home, and, you know, the electricity of just everything that was going on in the world shut down. And you could not, you know, ignore those thoughts and feelings anymore. And so I think that's really what it was.

Speaker E: Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me. I think a lot of, on a totally simplistic level, I remember sort of sitting and listening to music from my childhood. You sort of became very internal and thoughtful during COVID So on a level, like, oh, I'm just remembering my. My family, and for my case, they're a long way away. So I was thinking about it. In your case, you're remembering you're still your body and your mind is still because life is still, which none of us had ever experienced. So you had the opportunity to sort of sit in that stillness, I guess, and it all kind of came out, which is, I mean, I mean, my question really would be, how do you survive that? I mean, obviously, the initial trauma, dealing with it and then carrying on and going on and be able to have this, obviously, what seemed to be very healthy relationship, marriage. You're a mother. You're a very outwardly presenting together person. So how do you. How do all those pieces come together? How do you do that?

Speaker C: Yeah, that's a really good question. I think. I think it's because I allowed myself to sit in the trauma for so long there. It didn't come easy. Like, there was days that I was downstairs at the punching bag punching the complete **** out of it and just expecting to be better. But I sat there and bawled and cried and, you know, continued to pick myself up again and do it over and over and over again. It was acknowledging and being able to do the work. And if I didn't have my two daughters, I don't know that I would be in the same position, because they truly have been my entire purpose for healing and for being able to find happiness and be exactly who they need to be. My mom and I did not have a good relationship. She was. Her and I were volatile. And so as the book takes you through as well, that relationship, she was on my brother's team after the news came out. And so as interesting that as that was, it was the motivation and the hilt that I was willing to die on to be able to say, I can't have you in my life because my daughters are too important to me. Right. What would they like if I just allowed her to be in our lives? What. What kind of person would I be to say that that's okay? Yeah. Did she.

Speaker E: Did she know? Do you think she knew what was going on?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker E: Cognitive or. Her.

Speaker C: She was forcing us to bathe together when he was in grade five, or I was in grade five, and he was in grade six. So by that time, I had been wearing a bra for an entire year, and I had developed early, and so it was access that she was providing him and not creating a boundary between the two of us. And so I feel like that was a, you know, one of the big, you know, sparks to his ability to say, it's okay.

Speaker E: Right. But she allowed that boundary. He was at an age, and she hadn't. I mean, still, he's very. For sure, whatever the should be boundaries and whatever. There's some kind of connection obviously missing in his brain.

Speaker D: And I really want to go back to what you said earlier, because I'm super interested in that, and I'm sure it's going to be in the book, but if you can give us a taste of what it was like to confront him, because I think that's what you said, you actually were able to confront him, your abuser. And also, I mean, your mom was the abuser, too. So if you did confront both of them, what was that leg for you?

Speaker C: Yeah. So, like, my initial, I didn't even want to tell her. I didn't. I had no intentions of being labeled a victim, labeled a survivor. I wanted nothing to do with it. It was not going to define me, you know, the moment that I had spoke to my husband about it. And so it wasn't until after some time that I told my dad, I would say maybe a week or two. Him and I are very, very close. And so it was just something that I wanted him to know because I never keep a secret from him. And he held on to it for about a week. And then he said, I can't. I can't do this. I can't not share this with her. And so I said, okay, like, it's up to you. You go ahead and share it. And so he did. And it took her three days to call. And when she did call, she said, well, aren't you going to tell me about it? And I said, sure. And so I told her everything. I told her about the depression, how it unraveled, you know, I told her the longevity of it, the seriousness of it all. And all she said was, why didn't you just say no? And so for me, that was a complete shock. She basically had told me in the same instance that something similar had happened to her when she was younger. It was not even close to the seriousness of a rape by any means, but it happened once. And she went and told her mom, and her mom said, that's enough. We won't be talking about this again. Keep it to yourself. And so we ended up having a family intervention by my oldest brother. And he had said, you know, come to Saskatoon. All of us will get together. We're not an open family. We don't share how we feel. We don't talk about anything. And so we all sat and had this prearranged seating meeting, and each person, I read five pages of how everything affected me and every memory that I had and the details of everything. And then, you know, my husband went, my oldest brother went, my parents went, and then at the very end of it, he admitted everything. He apologized for everything, and he was escorted out.

Speaker E: And did he have any answer or, you know, oh, it's because of this, or did he? What is it?

Speaker C: So, yeah, it wasn't until, I want to say, two or three weeks later that he ended up writing an email to my parents. And he downplayed everything and said, oh, we were just kids. Like, it's no big deal. You know, I've never done anything in my life to disappoint my family. And, you know, you guys are the only thing that matters to me. Basically trying to say face to them and apologized. And so from that point on, my mom was on team chad, and so it was very obvious, and she said, I'm not willing to talk about this anymore. I'm done talking about it. You just need to get up on the horse and get back on. You've got a life to live, and you got too much time on your hands.

Speaker E: Wow. Are your parents still. Are your parents together?

Speaker C: So it reveals itself in the book, how everything ends up. But it was definitely one of the most challenging times in my life to be able to learn about why she was saying the things that she had said and to be able to create a boundary for myself and my family.

Speaker E: So, obviously, like, you're talking about the sun trauma in her life. It's coming somewhere. It's a repeating of a cycle.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker E: And you're breaking the cycle.

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker E: Right. It's very interesting to me. You're talking about your children and how healing that is. And I, on a very different level, really understand that because I felt that, too, had my own trauma, and my children are the thing that have healed me. They've given me purpose. They've let me shut the door on the past. So I really understand that very profoundly. But can you talk to us from your point of view on how you do that, how you go on from this level of darkness? I mean, this is very dark. And how you go on and have a. A healthy relationship with your current husband, who sounds like a wonderful man, and go on and have two healthy, beautiful children and how you create your own life, happy life.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker E: In spite of that.

Speaker C: Right. And. Yeah, that's such a good point, I think, you know, even before I had acknowledged abuse, it was my life, school, to be nothing like my mother. And so to be able to have two girls was my ultimate dream in life. I was so scared of having boys because I thought there was a risk that I would not be able to love them or him because of the resentment that I had. And so, you know, that, I guess God had given me the greatest gift in that and having two daughters. So, for me, though, making sure that I was not my mother was not enough of a reason to be able to be more than that. So I started off with every single thing that I wanted as a child. Right. I had this dream, hallmark family that I had this picturesque, you know, what is it that I want out of life? And so I worked at it. I worked at being able to have open communication with my girls, being able to create that safe feeling for them, giving them the autonomy to make their own decisions, and being able to, you know, if they don't want to take a bath with each other, they don't have to. If they want to have a shower and they don't want their dad anywhere near, then that's okay. Okay. If my youngest says I want to shave my legs and I'm only, you know, ten or eleven, then absolutely, you know, what? If it's respecting who they are and allowing them to grow in their own individual bodies, that I think will bring them true happiness and joy and be able to trust me as a mother. Aside from that, the biggest thing that you can do, I guess, as a survivor, anybody who's been through it, is heal yourself and heal the inner child that you have inside of you. Be the mother that you are to them, to yourself as well. And so I kept a picture of myself at the age of five, right before the abuse happened, and I kept a picture of her on my nightstand. And every day, small affirmations saying, I got you, girl. It's okay. You're going to be fine. I love you. All the things that I wanted to hear and the things that I tell my girls, I told myself as well. And so I think that that is truly empowering. And maybe it sounds a little bit silly, but I think it's really just acknowledging who you were and what you.

Speaker E: Needed at that time doesn't sound silly at all. It's actually the most sensible thing you can do is to. Because you'll always carry something with you. You can't not. It's always there, but. And you have to keep working on it. But the fact that you can love, that is the biggest achievement. That if you are somebody who has suffered trauma, that you can go on and love people and receive love is the biggest achievement. I mean, it's huge, isn't it?

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, it does. It takes a lot, actually. And I think, you know, I. I wished so many times for that, like, knight in shining armor to come and rescue me and take me away from her and him and, you know, get me out of there. And, you know, who I married at the time definitely was not that person. He actually, you know, I ended up on, you know, the bedroom or floor of a closet locked in there. And it was just something that at that point in time, I realized this wasn't the life that I wanted. And so when I found my husband and this secret came out, he has been more than I could ever ask for. Just that level of deep understanding and connection, I think, in every relationship that we have. Right. We talk about, oh, what I need. I need help with the kids. I need help with this. We're intimate here, we're intimate there, that kind of thing. But there isn't that real deep spiritual connection that we talk about with vulnerability that is so important. And because I had blocked it out for so long, it just wasn't, you know, something that I brought up. But when I did, he really embraced it and supported me, and he was that person that stood up to my mother and was that person that I had always needed him to be.

Speaker E: That's phenomenal. Yeah, phenomenal. You're incredibly lucky. It makes. I mean, that's the difference between being able to thrive rather than just survive, as it were.

Speaker D: I. Yeah. And so obviously, you have these gorgeous two girls, and obviously, as a mother of abuse, that's, you know, it's been such an incredible process for you. Is there something that, like, you teach your daughters about to kind of. I mean, I don't even know how you can say. You don't want to say, like, stay away from the abuse. It's not anyone's, like, it would never be their fault, but there's, like, things.

Speaker C: That you can do.

Speaker D: You know what I mean? Like, yeah, what do you say to them? And even also, like, you're so public about this, which just incredible that you're able to share your stories. So, like, what can you tell them about the things that they're not, I want to say, allowed to know, but if you know what I mean. Like, yeah, you can't feel like you can tell them.

Speaker C: I'm pretty open with my girls. And, you know, they. They know everything about my past marriage. They know, you know, the reason why we got divorced. They know what had happened between my brother and I. And so they don't know all the critical details. Right. They don't know what rape is, for example. But ever since they were little, because of what I went through, I spoke to them about boundaries and consent. And so I think having them say that this is my body, my rules, that's one of the taglines that we use in our house, and it's something that I've always taught them. And so if they're not comfortable with it, that's okay. Their body, their rules. And so my oldest daughter, actually, when everything was happening. There was a lot of emotion going on. I was crying a lot. We had that one trip to Saskatoon, and she wasn't quite sure what was happening. And so it was shortly thereafter that she said, mommy, what's wrong? I know you're sad. Are you sad with us? And so I sat down with her on her bed, and I said, you know, this is the story. This is why mommy's upset. And she could tell. She said, was it because Uncle Chad touched your privates? And I said, yeah, that's exactly what it was. And she said, I'm so sorry that he did that. And I said, baby, I don't want you to be sorry for him. You never have to say sorry for him. And so we talked about curiosities as a child. We talked about experiencing sexuality as, you know, as on your own, right, as an independent, and how that can be healthy. We talked about, you know, when you get into relationships and that if you're not ready for it or there's pressure, that it's okay to say no, or I'm not ready or not yet, you know, and just be able to open up and ask those questions. And so I think by one, teaching them that it's okay to say no, that their body and, you know, everything that they stand for should be held on a pedestal as high as it can be. And that they don't have to settle for anybody or anything, I think is truly magical as a child, to be able to understand that.

Speaker E: Yeah, I mean, I don't think many children get that kind of understanding, get that, you know, free communication with a parent. And the only thing that obviously is from me looking at this or from us desperately, I said, is the wrong word. Is that what you had to go through to be able to express or articulate that? And you think what you're doing today by speaking out, by telling people your story, is to allow other people, whether the situation is as dark or traumatic, to talk about these things, to talk. This is my body. This is my life, specifically as a woman, as a young woman, because a lot of us have experienced things in the realm of we wish we hadn't. Not. Yep, not what you experienced.

Speaker C: But, yeah, 100%. I think that's totally normal to say whether you've been through sexual abuse or not. I think we've all gone through a period in our lives where, you know, perhaps self confidence hasn't been as high, right. Or we've lost our virginity to somebody, and then it's like, well, what does it matter if I do it again. Right. With somebody else. And then you just keep tacking on, you know, the additional partners, and it takes us a while to pull ourselves out of it and to be able to say, okay, I'm better than this. I can do, you know, something about this. And I shouldn't feel the need to be pleasing men, or women for that matter, at any given point in time unless I feel like it.

Speaker E: Yeah. And I think something we had, Susie and I had this conversation the other day, and she was talking, and Susie's 29, like you said, a lot of your friends who, not ancient like me, but, you know, like, they. They don't have this connection to, as women, young women, to sex and pleasure. Like it's connected to something else. And it's all very messed up that we're still at this point, you know. Yeah. We don't understand that, which is.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think we fall into. And even when we get married, right. We fall into this automatic, you know, it's just like another thing to check off on the list of things to do, and you become subservient into it, and it's just you dissociate and you go ahead with it. And I know that I've fallen into that, and it's something, I guess, throughout this entire process that I've had to reclaim my sexuality and what I'm comfortable with and what triggers me. But I think it's a lot of, a lot of the time there's women, regardless of abuse in the past, that we just fall into that category 100%.

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: I just want to go back for a second. I know we talked about, like, how you're, you know, you have your daughters and then you're a little bit afraid of, like, them dealing with, like, other men.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: So, like, is there a way that you've been able to kind of not get over that but kind of calm yourself or in the way of, like, you know, I know my, I trust my girls that they are going to tell me or they're going to find.

Speaker A: Help or something like that.

Speaker D: Like, is that something you've had to do for yourself at this time?

Speaker C: So. And I think that's how sexual abuse or any type of trauma, you know, reinvigorates itself in your life. Right. It causes anxiety, and you feel like a chest heaviness, and it's being able to identify at that moment that this is trauma related. Nothing, you know, nobody else would feel this type of anxiety unless they had been through what I had been through. So being able to say, okay, you know, this boy is okay to teach them in a bike camp. Like, he's. He's not going to hurt them. There's other people around, you know, calm yourself. It's okay. But then, yeah, like you said, being able to say to my girls that your body, your rules, nobody's allowed to touch you if you don't want them to. And, you know, my seven year old would. She's so feisty that I would never worry about her whatsoever. And my ten year old is very fit, and so I feel good that, you know, they tell me everything, so I'm not worried at all.

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker D: I think for. I think most women have gone through some kind of trauma, whether it be sexual or otherwise, which is awful. But there are these things that we've had to tell ourselves and kind of, like, get through just, like, either the day or, like, for the people that we love seeing, like, stop repeating these patterns. And, like, I think you've done a really amazing job by, like, trying to stop this pattern of, like, okay, I can see this now. This is how we're gonna stop this. And then this is how my girls are gonna be, you know, the best women that they can be in the future. So I really, you know, applaud you for that. That's incredible.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker D: Yeah, amazing. It's. Must be. It's not easy being a mom. I don't know anything about it. You two have that in common, but, yeah, it's. I'm sure it can't be easy.

Speaker E: It doesn't get easier.

Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, well, thank you.

Speaker E: Sorry. I'm 20 year old and a 17 year old and. Sounds similar. Feisty and everything, but. Wow. It's not quiet.

Speaker C: No.

Speaker D: Yeah, sounds good. With the feisty girls. You know, it's nothing. Not easy, but we get them.

Speaker E: But that's. That's good. That's. That's what you want. You want personality otherwise.

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker E: That's very important.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker E: On a very serious note, what would you. I mean, obviously, I hope not too many people who have lived the same story as you. I mean, it's. Yeah. As we've said, unimaginably dark. But I think. I fear there are probably actually a lot of people, a lot of young women in living and surviving horrible situations are frightened to speak like you are or don't have anybody to talk to. What message or what would you say to them? Or even their grown up selves? What would you say? Them trying to get this out of their subconscious or if they're living it in the time now?

Speaker C: Yeah, I would say first and foremost, to acknowledge it. I think that's the hardest part, that we, as survivors, we just bury it so deep and, you know, down as far as we can that we don't have to deal with it. But the moment that you acknowledge it, you have that opportunity to sit in it. And when you have that opportunity to sit in, it becomes a bit more real. And that moment that you can take, whether it's to a stranger, a therapist, somebody who's safe and be able to say it for the first time, you set yourself free. You reclaim your life and your body back, and your trauma no longer lives within you. And so I think just being able to do that for yourself will ignite the healing process and a healing journey for you.

Speaker E: And have you found writing your book? It must have been very healing.

Speaker C: Maybe.

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker C: There was days that I sat there and I just bawled, and I'm typing away, and it was like a hot, hot, sad mess. But, you know, but there was days that, you know, it was quite enjoyable. There wasn't a single point of it that I didn't love. And so my hopes is that, you know, it's a decent enough story that people would like to listen to it and like to read it and would motivate them and inspire them to be able to share their own story.

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker E: I mean, definitely.

Speaker C: It's.

Speaker D: Yeah, it's incredible. Even if they're just, like, writing it down in a journal, I feel like if you're telling yourself it, that it's happened, that it's actually something that you've lived through and you've survived, I think that can be just as powerful. If you don't, let's say you don't have anyone to talk to. You can't afford a therapist, you know, like these things.

Speaker C: Send me an Instagram message. I will talk to you. I will hear you out. And you're right. Journaling, everything like that. Right. But it's still kind of keeping it inside of you and that sort of thing. And so, by all means, reach out. I would love to hear from you. The amount of people that I've even shared my story to that have come to me and said, you know, yeah, I've had a cousin or I've had, you know, a neighbor or an uncle at some point. It's shocking, but I'm not entirely surprised, to be honest, by how common it is. And I think because we don't talk about it enough, it's not normalized. Right. And the more that we can do that, the more that we can normalize it and we can be okay with what has happened, and then we can change it. We can change our children, we can give them the ownership back of their bodies and we can prevent things like that from happening in the future. At least that's my entire hopes for it. So if we don't speak up and we don't say something, then we're never going to heal and we're just going to sit in our shame that we've got about it.

Speaker E: Yeah, 100%. And talking specifically to younger women and younger boys, you know, who are vulnerable, explaining how they can deal with those feelings or understand warning signs or doing something or any of the above, like, what do they do? And if you share that story or they've heard it, they might think, oh, yes, I can do this. I don't have to go through this. It's really important.

Speaker D: What are the warning signs? I know you said you had, so.

Speaker C: Yeah, warning signs, I would say is that typically it is a family member, but oddly enough, you would think that the percentage for a dad is the highest. It's actually not. It's around like eight or 9% higher would be a sibling, an uncle or a cousin. A distant relative is more likely. Normally they will just send out like a little bit of a test, a little bit of a feeder, you know, a joke, a sleep slap on the butt. They'll see how you react to it before they progress. And so that was, I guess, similar with my instance in that it started off with just like a simple flashlight, you know, in my private area. And then it was turned into, well, I'll teach you what sex is, and this is how it goes. And then it was, you know, from that point on of being given access through the bathtub, it was, you know, well, this is what a hand job is. This is how this works. And then, you know, that final rape, it was him wrapped in saran wrap. And he said, I promise this, it won't even touch you. And so I think the. You're not going to tell anybody about this, are you? Comment afterwards is, you know, solidification to anybody that has gone through anything that those feelings that you felt, the, you know, the sweating, the nervousness, the shakingness, it all validates everything that you've been through. So. And it just. It wasn't your fault. You just have to know that as anybody that's ever been through it, anybody who's under the age, regardless if they say yes, are not able to make a confirmation or, you know, say yes to any type of sexual act.

Speaker E: I just think it is so shocking. I actually don't have siblings, so maybe it's even more shocking to, like. Like what? Like what is going on in the parent. Like what is going on that that happens. It's just so difficult to wrap your head around as an outsider. But I think it's, like you said, far more common than people think.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Just having those open conversations with your kids, right. Being able to respect their boundaries and teaching them that it's okay to have that.

Speaker E: And if you have children of sort of similar ages, it stands to reason they're going through hormone or whatever changes. And as the adults, as the parents, you have to talk about, you know, your bodies and sex and boundaries and all these kind of things. You can't just hope it's all going to be fine.

Speaker C: Well, and you can't leave it to school either.

Speaker E: Right?

Speaker C: Like, my, my oldest went through sexual education or the beginning of it this year. And sure, she may learn about, you know, wet dreams, for example, and, you know, going through periods and breast development and that sort of thing. But they don't talk about masturbation. They don't talk about body boundaries, for example, or consent, which. Those are the most important things, 100%.

Speaker E: I mean, I think, like, when my kids went through it sort of, I suppose that's like ten years ago, the, the first thing my, a youngest learned about was she asked me, mummy, what is it to be pansexual? And I thought, yeah. And I thought at the time I had no idea because this was the beginnings of, you know, nobody was really talking like that. I said, actually, I. I don't know. But she actually thought it was something to do with pants, which is just delightfully, like, innocent. Right. But I mean, you're like, no, no, I think before we get there, maybe we should be talking about, you know, biological. Oh, my gosh. Not worrying about, you know, that's a little advanced, isn't it? But I think it's a very difficult conversation for schools to have for all sorts of reasons. There's lots of objection to it, people who are religious, whatever. So you have to have those conversations at home and you have to be a grown up. I mean, if you're parents and you're married, I think you've probably had sex to have the children. So I think you can probably talk about it and you can. That conversation can evolve. And the more open you are, the more normalized and the more comfortable your children are going to be with sex, which shouldn't be shameful or anything, and hopefully will not become involved with men who are abusive or vice versa, because they won't want it or need it.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker E: But, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: And I think it goes. It goes even beyond, you know, talking about sex and that sort of thing. I think with our children, you know, when George Floyd was murdered, that was a topic about anti racism, and, you know, those conversations came up about, you know, what was going on in the world and why we're not part of that and why, you know, we value anybody for the color of their skin or their religion. Right. Even when it came to sexuality and talking about anybody who is non binary or gay or lesbian, it's LGBTQ. Plus, it's all very normal in our family that it's okay to be exactly who you're meant to be. So we speak about it openly. So I think it's just a family value that I would say I definitely didn't have as a child. My husband did. But it's something that's super important to our family.

Speaker D: So I know you have a second brother. You have your older brother, your oldest brother. Do you still speak to him?

Speaker C: I do. Him and I are much closer now after the family divide, it was my oldest brother and my dad and myself and then my mom and, um, my middle brother.

Speaker E: Okay.

Speaker D: So, yeah, that's just, like, kind of. You're able to. You're able to have some sort of a family trust circle, which is amazing after what you've been through.

Speaker C: And. And oddly enough, I think without the love and support of my husband, like, I don't know where I would be in that sense. So it truly is because of him and the work that we're doing together as a family that, um, you know, we are where we're at because we're located in Calgary and all of our families in Saskatoon. So, um, you know, they're kind of at a distant, um.

Speaker E: Yeah, you can keep them away.

Speaker D: Yeah. Healthy. Healthy.

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker D: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I understand that. Oh, that's amazing. Um, well, how do you think? Like, there's this. Obviously, we've been talking about consent in a huge way. Probably one of the most important things we can teach our young people. But how do you teach? I mean, I don't expect you to have the answer, but, like, I think as adults, we who have not been taught about consent, you know, like, older millennials. Millennials, you know, Gen X, you know, like, how. How do we talk about it now? Right? Like, how are we able to talk about something like oh, yeah, you're at a bar. You can't grab a girl's ***. Like in the what? You know, like, there's these things that it's just like, well, no, that's not, it's not just not appropriate, but it's completely. You're violating someone.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: So what would you say to, like, you know, maybe think twice about something you're doing, especially obviously to men, let's say.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, to men, I think that's going to be a work in progress. And I think until we hit that generation where the parents now are trying to make the difference in their own kids lives, I think ******** are going to be ********. And as a woman, you just have to be able to use your voice and stand up and say, back the f. Up and get away from me. And stay in packs, stay in groups like we've always learned. I don't know that it is going to get any easier unless a man's willing to change and unless that man is willing to say, okay, consent rules are different now. And I'm going to ask and I'm going to, you know, respect her boundaries. And, you know, if you find one of those guys, then, you know, sink your teeth in. But yeah, you know what? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. And I don't know if it's a simple, easy fix that, you know, all of a sudden men are going to be able to realize that it's not okay. But I know that there is that generation of men that are still, you know, the cat callers and the *** grabbers and, you know, all that kind of thing and. Yeah, I don't, I don't know what to say other than stand up for yourself and avoid them.

Speaker D: Yeah, I think. I think your daughter's generation is going to be a huge difference. Like, like, if they're. Because there's parents like you now who can teach young boys about consent and all these incredible things that we're now just kind of, we're literally learning about. Like, it's, it's an amazing thing and it's really amazing for me to see who, like, we never talked about this, but, like, I'm, I'm in the era, like your kind of self, where we're, we're in both. Right.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Where it's like you're just kind of learning about consent and we can still use that part.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: So that's really awesome. I think we have one last question.

Speaker E: Yes.

Speaker D: But, yeah, so we access to all of our amazing guests that come on to our pod. And it's just really in the spirit of telling truths and sharing your truth today, what truth would you share to your younger self if you could?

Speaker C: Wow, that's a tough one. But I would say if I had to share a single truth, it would be to get away from my family as fast as I possibly could and to not marry my ex husband. To be able to find my own solidarity by myself, financial stability, mental stability, and make it at life just like that. I learned that very late in life, and I'm a different person because of it. But if I would have been able to imagine, even if I was to call the kids help phone line and say, I'm being abused, I have no idea what my life would have been like if I had made that one decision or just putting space between myself and my family.

Speaker D: Well, you're an incredible person today. If we could say that, obviously, I think we.

Speaker E: Yeah. So incredibly articulate. It's. Yeah. And.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker E: Obviously brave as well. Yeah.

Speaker D: We obviously don't wish this on anyone, but it's incredible. It's incredible how. How strong it's. It's made you, like, the way that you're able to kind of come around and see it from a different perspective. I think a lot of people, a lot of survivors aren't able to do that just yet, hopefully. So hopefully it'll all come around there.

Speaker E: The fact that you can speaks so eloquently in such an articulate manner means you've processed a huge amount that's. That's obvious. Anybody even talk in the way that you're talking means you've processed a lot of what's happened to you.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah. I do believe that. And I do believe I don't hold any anger or resentment towards, you know, my brother or my ex. It's something that I have been able to forgive them for, oddly enough. And I do believe that the path that I've been through and the childhood that I had, the decisions that I've had to make because of it have made me who I am today. And if I wasn't able to do that, then perhaps I wouldn't have been able to break the chain of generational trauma, and perhaps I wouldn't have been or cannot be the mother that I am today either. You know, I feel like everything sort of, in a way, happens for a reason, but at the same time, you're given the life that you have, and you may as well make the best of it and try and change and inspire somebody else to do the same.

Speaker E: You can't change the past, but you can work on the future and you can work on yourself. I would like to. Can you please? I know you've got a book coming out, so it's really important that we get that message out, what the title is of book, where people can find it when it comes out, when it's coming out, the name, etcetera.

Speaker C: Yeah. So it's called the obedient daughter. It is by myself, Amber Nicole Hayes. And you can find it on Amazon September 24. It'll be on additional retailers shortly thereafter. But, yeah, please do so. Come follow me on instagram at Amberhays author. Or you can see me on. On the Internet at Ambernicholhays Caddenhe. And if you do have a story, if you are a survivor, if you just want to talk to anybody, please reach out. Send me a message. I'd love to hear from you.

Speaker D: That's amazing. You have literally been such a dream guest. No, like, you're so wonderful to talk to you. So if anyone does want to share their story with you, like, you have just been so awesome and so open. So we really, really appreciate that and I hope we get to keep in touch with you. And, you know, we are obviously going to be buying your book and reading it from, you know, front to back. And, yeah. Just thank you so much for telling your story.

Speaker E: It's so important. It's amazing. It's really courageous. I know I've said this many times. It's very courageous. It's very brave. It's really important to tell these stories and also for people to see somebody like you who's clearly got their **** together, it's, like, inspiring, right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker E: So it's really important. Yeah. Thank you from us.

Speaker C: Thank you so much for having me and for helping me share my story as well.

Speaker E: Amazing to speak to you, and we'll be in touch very soon.

Speaker C: Thank you so much, Amber. Thank you.

Speaker D: Thank you.

Speaker C: Bye, ladies. Bye.

Speaker B: Thanks so much for listening. Please rate and review this podcast and follow us on social at sharingmytruthpod and leave us a voicemail on our website, sharingmytruth.com, to share your stories and experiences with us. We'll see you next time.

Speaker E: Bye bye.

Speaker C: Three, two, one. Yeah.